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	<title>Comments on: California Shrugged</title>
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	<link>http://criticalmas.com/2009/07/california-shrugged/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=california-shrugged</link>
	<description>Blog for Michael Allen Smith of Seattle</description>
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		<title>By: Ed</title>
		<link>http://criticalmas.com/2009/07/california-shrugged/#comment-2061</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Jul 2009 04:46:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://criticalmas.com/?p=3885#comment-2061</guid>
		<description>Sounds like this Mish guy knows what he&#039;s talking about. I listen to beck  a few others and read whatever  but I stopped investing in the market. Im done with it, and I always get burned anyways. Im going to sit on the sidelines Jim and wait for the implosion. 

Mas I live about a mile and a half from the 21 acre farm, never been there and it looks perfect. I will have to make an effort to get down there one of these days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds like this Mish guy knows what he&#8217;s talking about. I listen to beck  a few others and read whatever  but I stopped investing in the market. Im done with it, and I always get burned anyways. Im going to sit on the sidelines Jim and wait for the implosion. </p>
<p>Mas I live about a mile and a half from the 21 acre farm, never been there and it looks perfect. I will have to make an effort to get down there one of these days.</p>
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		<title>By: MAS</title>
		<link>http://criticalmas.com/2009/07/california-shrugged/#comment-2059</link>
		<dc:creator>MAS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:55:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://criticalmas.com/?p=3885#comment-2059</guid>
		<description>&quot;The idea of having my own big garden, chickens, bee farm, well and solar panels etc…appeals to me very nicely. &quot;

That &lt;a href=&quot;http://criticalmas.com/2009/07/21-acres-farm-tour/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;appeals&lt;/a&gt; to me as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The idea of having my own big garden, chickens, bee farm, well and solar panels etc…appeals to me very nicely. &#8221;</p>
<p>That <a href="http://criticalmas.com/2009/07/21-acres-farm-tour/" rel="nofollow">appeals</a> to me as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://criticalmas.com/2009/07/california-shrugged/#comment-2058</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:54:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://criticalmas.com/?p=3885#comment-2058</guid>
		<description>MAS - Here are the money quotes from Mish&#039;s article IMHO (though I disagree with his conclusion):

In relation to The Golden Constant, the inflation hedge thesis is little more than an old wives’ tale. Unfortunately, that hasn’t stopped it sprouting like a weed. Lacking dispassionate empirical support, it rests instead on other theories that at root are political rather than economic.

We turn also to common sense, and note the fundamental economic difference between other commodities and gold: all other commodities are produced for consumption, whereas gold, precisely as a function of its money-like qualities, is produced for accumulation. 

Gold is what you want when they seal the borders and you need to get across; it’s what’s accepted when there’s blood in the streets and nothing else flies.

Given the current underlying conditions, with increasing chances of a deflationary credit implosion related to housing, along with some chances of a collapse in the dollar, Yen, or fiat currencies in general, the incentive to store wealth in the form of gold is massive.

Ed - I hear ya ...though the deflationary spiral will impact everyone IMO (not just the US).  If you are listening to Glenn Beck though, my best investment advice to you is to turn off your TV!        :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MAS &#8211; Here are the money quotes from Mish&#8217;s article IMHO (though I disagree with his conclusion):</p>
<p>In relation to The Golden Constant, the inflation hedge thesis is little more than an old wives’ tale. Unfortunately, that hasn’t stopped it sprouting like a weed. Lacking dispassionate empirical support, it rests instead on other theories that at root are political rather than economic.</p>
<p>We turn also to common sense, and note the fundamental economic difference between other commodities and gold: all other commodities are produced for consumption, whereas gold, precisely as a function of its money-like qualities, is produced for accumulation. </p>
<p>Gold is what you want when they seal the borders and you need to get across; it’s what’s accepted when there’s blood in the streets and nothing else flies.</p>
<p>Given the current underlying conditions, with increasing chances of a deflationary credit implosion related to housing, along with some chances of a collapse in the dollar, Yen, or fiat currencies in general, the incentive to store wealth in the form of gold is massive.</p>
<p>Ed &#8211; I hear ya &#8230;though the deflationary spiral will impact everyone IMO (not just the US).  If you are listening to Glenn Beck though, my best investment advice to you is to turn off your TV!        <img src='http://criticalmas.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Ed</title>
		<link>http://criticalmas.com/2009/07/california-shrugged/#comment-2057</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:50:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://criticalmas.com/?p=3885#comment-2057</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a good read from Jon Markman.
 &quot;The U.S. and China ponzi scheme&quot;. 

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/SuperModels/mad-world-chinas-bind-is-ours-too.aspx?page=1</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a good read from Jon Markman.<br />
 &#8220;The U.S. and China ponzi scheme&#8221;. </p>
<p><a href="http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/SuperModels/mad-world-chinas-bind-is-ours-too.aspx?page=1" rel="nofollow">http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/SuperModels/mad-world-chinas-bind-is-ours-too.aspx?page=1</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ed</title>
		<link>http://criticalmas.com/2009/07/california-shrugged/#comment-2056</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:31:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://criticalmas.com/?p=3885#comment-2056</guid>
		<description>Jim, Im not out to get rich....just maintain my life style with minimal pain. Real estate is always a good investment and more so now for those that have small farms and alternative energy sources to live off the grid as much as possible. this would be my only interest. The idea of having my own big garden, chickens, bee farm, well and solar panels etc...appeals to me very nicely. Besides I don&#039;t have the cash to go out buying up forclosures, nor would I want to spend the time. There&#039;s plenty of people out there losing there ass on rentals too. No job + no money= no rent check. 

But I don&#039;t believe that the worlds super power will allow itself to simmer in a deflationary spiral and allow another country to kindly take its position. Historically, its never happened, so I lean towards self induced hyperinflation or war. I hope my theory is wrong. 

I think Glenn Beck said it right last night. &quot;there&#039;s definitely a transformation occurring much like what happenend in Russia.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim, Im not out to get rich&#8230;.just maintain my life style with minimal pain. Real estate is always a good investment and more so now for those that have small farms and alternative energy sources to live off the grid as much as possible. this would be my only interest. The idea of having my own big garden, chickens, bee farm, well and solar panels etc&#8230;appeals to me very nicely. Besides I don&#8217;t have the cash to go out buying up forclosures, nor would I want to spend the time. There&#8217;s plenty of people out there losing there ass on rentals too. No job + no money= no rent check. </p>
<p>But I don&#8217;t believe that the worlds super power will allow itself to simmer in a deflationary spiral and allow another country to kindly take its position. Historically, its never happened, so I lean towards self induced hyperinflation or war. I hope my theory is wrong. </p>
<p>I think Glenn Beck said it right last night. &#8220;there&#8217;s definitely a transformation occurring much like what happenend in Russia.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: MAS</title>
		<link>http://criticalmas.com/2009/07/california-shrugged/#comment-2055</link>
		<dc:creator>MAS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:28:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://criticalmas.com/?p=3885#comment-2055</guid>
		<description>The Mish vs Denninger debate is about the direction of gold during DEFLATION.  Both agree that gold rises in an inflationary environment. Denninger thinks gold can get smashed in a deflationary environment.  Mish disagrees.

If I thought inflation was a serious probability I&#039;d be long miners or do as Karl mentions: buy OTM leap call options.  But I don&#039;t.  So like you I&#039;m in cash and funds that short equities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Mish vs Denninger debate is about the direction of gold during DEFLATION.  Both agree that gold rises in an inflationary environment. Denninger thinks gold can get smashed in a deflationary environment.  Mish disagrees.</p>
<p>If I thought inflation was a serious probability I&#8217;d be long miners or do as Karl mentions: buy OTM leap call options.  But I don&#8217;t.  So like you I&#8217;m in cash and funds that short equities.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://criticalmas.com/2009/07/california-shrugged/#comment-2054</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 18:19:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://criticalmas.com/?p=3885#comment-2054</guid>
		<description>MAS - Your comment on the Mish vs. Denninger views nudged me to do some digging ...and you are right.  I was firmly in the Denninger camp, but this detailed article makes a strong case against gold being a good inflation hedge (in fact it implies somewhat negative correlation to inflation):

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2007/02/is-gold-inflation-hedge.html

Gold is apparently good in the Mad Max (or Mad MAS :) ) scenario, but otherwise not so much.  And even in this case it must be physical gold ...gold ETFs and futures can&#039;t be bartered very well for black market goods.

So a hyperinflationist is left with either real estate and/or commodities as good investments.  RE for reasons I already mentioned.  Commodities, since a hyperinflating currency will buy less and less &quot;stuff&quot; ...and therefore the same commodity &quot;buys&quot; more and more dollars.

Regardless, I am still in the deflationary camp, which means cash and short equities.  I have been more into system trading lately though, which takes advantage of high volatility regardless of market direction (i.e. makes long and short trades, but short term).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MAS &#8211; Your comment on the Mish vs. Denninger views nudged me to do some digging &#8230;and you are right.  I was firmly in the Denninger camp, but this detailed article makes a strong case against gold being a good inflation hedge (in fact it implies somewhat negative correlation to inflation):</p>
<p><a href="http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2007/02/is-gold-inflation-hedge.html" rel="nofollow">http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2007/02/is-gold-inflation-hedge.html</a></p>
<p>Gold is apparently good in the Mad Max (or Mad MAS <img src='http://criticalmas.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  ) scenario, but otherwise not so much.  And even in this case it must be physical gold &#8230;gold ETFs and futures can&#8217;t be bartered very well for black market goods.</p>
<p>So a hyperinflationist is left with either real estate and/or commodities as good investments.  RE for reasons I already mentioned.  Commodities, since a hyperinflating currency will buy less and less &#8220;stuff&#8221; &#8230;and therefore the same commodity &#8220;buys&#8221; more and more dollars.</p>
<p>Regardless, I am still in the deflationary camp, which means cash and short equities.  I have been more into system trading lately though, which takes advantage of high volatility regardless of market direction (i.e. makes long and short trades, but short term).</p>
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		<title>By: MAS</title>
		<link>http://criticalmas.com/2009/07/california-shrugged/#comment-2053</link>
		<dc:creator>MAS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:15:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://criticalmas.com/?p=3885#comment-2053</guid>
		<description>Whenever I hear calls that the USD is going to continue tanking, I ask &quot;relative to what?&quot;.  This is a global recession (depression) and as bad as our banks and balance sheets look, they are equally and often worse in other countries.  

The only answer I&#039;ve heard is that the USD will decline against GOLD and other commodities.  MISH believes this as Gold is protection in a deflationary collapse.  Denninger believe the opposite.  I don&#039;t know.  I do see a crowd forming on the precious metals side and that always concerns me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whenever I hear calls that the USD is going to continue tanking, I ask &#8220;relative to what?&#8221;.  This is a global recession (depression) and as bad as our banks and balance sheets look, they are equally and often worse in other countries.  </p>
<p>The only answer I&#8217;ve heard is that the USD will decline against GOLD and other commodities.  MISH believes this as Gold is protection in a deflationary collapse.  Denninger believe the opposite.  I don&#8217;t know.  I do see a crowd forming on the precious metals side and that always concerns me.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://criticalmas.com/2009/07/california-shrugged/#comment-2052</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 07:52:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://criticalmas.com/?p=3885#comment-2052</guid>
		<description>Hi Ed - If you TRULY believe the hyperinflation argument you should buy as much property as you can get your hands on.  In such an environment rents would quickly outstrip mortgage payments and mortgage rates are historically low.  The returns would far exceed boring old gold, since property is levered at least 4:1.  

The only equivalent leverage I know of is /YG (gold) futures contracts or GLD call options, which are also both highly levered.

Anyway no offence, but I just think most gold bugs are talking their book.  Other good hyperinflation investments are always completly ignored and gold is always the only option presented ...even though real estate and currency trading would likely be more profitable (and less risky) in a hyperinflationary environment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Ed &#8211; If you TRULY believe the hyperinflation argument you should buy as much property as you can get your hands on.  In such an environment rents would quickly outstrip mortgage payments and mortgage rates are historically low.  The returns would far exceed boring old gold, since property is levered at least 4:1.  </p>
<p>The only equivalent leverage I know of is /YG (gold) futures contracts or GLD call options, which are also both highly levered.</p>
<p>Anyway no offence, but I just think most gold bugs are talking their book.  Other good hyperinflation investments are always completly ignored and gold is always the only option presented &#8230;even though real estate and currency trading would likely be more profitable (and less risky) in a hyperinflationary environment.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed</title>
		<link>http://criticalmas.com/2009/07/california-shrugged/#comment-2051</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jul 2009 06:18:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://criticalmas.com/?p=3885#comment-2051</guid>
		<description>Thanks MAS but I always pause when someone downplays the importance of having  some assets in metals. No you can&#039;t eat gold. I suppose a dollar bill would taste better. But it doesn&#039;t make sense to me why someone would feel this way especially if they expect more turmoil ahead in the bond market. Other good points though.

Thanks for that link Jim, I book marked it and will read it again later. It does make sense but I wonder (cautiously) if some important issues have been overlooked. 

As this deflationary process deepens, and our debt soars, nations which have already begun to slow their purchase of treasuries, let alone dump them, have already started the quest to bail on paper for more tangible assets, things of real value, on the cheap while they still can. The level of confidence is eroding. So as this imbalance drifts further apart, these assets no longer become as cheap possibly resulting in hyperinflation, as countries compete with each other desperately attempting to bail in dollar denominated paper assets.

Also its been said that a new financial crisis could develop from the failure to effectively regulate derivatives, where attempts will be made to buy real assets through insider scams. Banks have lobbied hard against any changes that would make them unable to do so. Since wall street owns the government, we shouldn&#039;t expect otherwise.

I assume the international bankers want a peaceful solution to the global financial mess, with a one world currency ,without a fight of course.

 Deflation aint ruining my summer, and that&#039;s a good thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks MAS but I always pause when someone downplays the importance of having  some assets in metals. No you can&#8217;t eat gold. I suppose a dollar bill would taste better. But it doesn&#8217;t make sense to me why someone would feel this way especially if they expect more turmoil ahead in the bond market. Other good points though.</p>
<p>Thanks for that link Jim, I book marked it and will read it again later. It does make sense but I wonder (cautiously) if some important issues have been overlooked. </p>
<p>As this deflationary process deepens, and our debt soars, nations which have already begun to slow their purchase of treasuries, let alone dump them, have already started the quest to bail on paper for more tangible assets, things of real value, on the cheap while they still can. The level of confidence is eroding. So as this imbalance drifts further apart, these assets no longer become as cheap possibly resulting in hyperinflation, as countries compete with each other desperately attempting to bail in dollar denominated paper assets.</p>
<p>Also its been said that a new financial crisis could develop from the failure to effectively regulate derivatives, where attempts will be made to buy real assets through insider scams. Banks have lobbied hard against any changes that would make them unable to do so. Since wall street owns the government, we shouldn&#8217;t expect otherwise.</p>
<p>I assume the international bankers want a peaceful solution to the global financial mess, with a one world currency ,without a fight of course.</p>
<p> Deflation aint ruining my summer, and that&#8217;s a good thing.</p>
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